Episode 03: Treating Life as a Performance Sport with Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 0:00
It's not about helping someone live - or run faster, or like jump higher or whatever their sport might be, but it's helping someone live their human potential. And for me, it's the gifts they're born with and helping them realize it as like as journey. And if I can help them to be who they authentically are, in really critical moments, I know that they're gonna be impacted profoundly, they're going to live their lives differently, they're going to have an impact on others.
Matt Johnston 0:25
The human experience is the greatest project any of us will undertake, it's often the one we spend the least amount of time working on. My name is Matt Johnston. I'm a self-professed personal development junkie, retired pro golfer, I now work for an organization that provides employee and health benefits to hundreds of thousands of people. It should be common sense to realize that what happens at work is what people bring home and what happens at home comes to them to work, but that's too often ignored. That's why each week I hope to uncover a little more around what it means to be a human working and living in the 21st century. We'll be learning from experts having conversations and getting insights into all those things that fall at the intersection of life and work, emotional and physical health, skills and money, all the relationships we navigate each day and of course the purpose and meaning we all desire. This is The Human Assignment.
Welcome back to the podcast. Today I'm thrilled to talk to a good friend of mine, sports psychologist and leadership consultant, Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood. Adrienne has spent the last three decades competing and consulting at the highest levels of sport. Adrienne is a licensed psychologist and adjunct faculty at the University of Manitoba. She has extensive experience working with athletes in both Canada and the United States at all levels of performance. Dr. Toogood's clients have ranged from individual Olympic athletes, teams and coaches, to PGA Tour winners and World Champions. She is the Past Chair of the Canadian Sport Psychology Association and the Director of Sport Psychology at the Canadian Sport Centre Manitoba and the founder and lead consultant at Toogood Consulting.
I first met Adrienne almost 17 years ago - maybe over 17 years ago - when she was early in her career as a sports psychologist and I was just entering college is an aspiring golfer. In recent years, we've become good friends and I'm continually impressed and inspired by the dedication Adrienne has for the people that she works with. In this episode, it becomes pretty clear about how passionate Adrienne is, both the work that she does and the energy and attention she gives to the athletes and other clients that she has. A key theme that I saw come up in this episode, was the importance Adrienne puts on helping her clients and athletes create environments for themselves and their teams so that - as she says - people can have the freedom to make mistakes, be vulnerable, learn and grow. I know that sort of sounds like a cheesy Hallmark card - and I say that in the episode - what I really enjoyed is that Adrienne starts to dig into the practices that she supports people to develop for themselves.
One thing that she really emphasizes is the need for continually developing self-awareness and self-trust, so that we can find our own individual practices that support our well-being. In listening to this interview, there's so many deep dives that I wish I had taken, and I'm learning with each episode as I go. So hopefully, I'll get better at identifying where I can, you know, prod for more details. But I do think that in this 30-minute interview, Adrienne gives some tremendous advice and inspiration for all of us, too, as she says, figure out our own cocktail of wellness so that we can learn to live life on our terms. I look forward to getting Adrienne back for round two sometime soon. There's just she always has so much wisdom to share. So please enjoy the high energy and inspirational. Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood.
So, Adrienne, yes. Welcome to the podcast.
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 4:13
Thank you, Matt. It's a privilege to be here. I appreciate being asked.
Matt Johnston 4:16
Thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time. It's - as I was saying to you before we pressed record here - the beautiful thing about this podcast is, I get to talk to the people that I know and love, and in the future corner others and ask them the questions that I've always wanted to ask them. And you know, you and I have known each other for a really long time.
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 4:39
We have.
Matt Johnston 4:40
We first met when I was when I was 17 or 18 years old. And you had just graduated as a sports psychologist.
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 4:50
Very young in my practice. It was very kind of you to be willing to spend time with me.
Matt Johnston 4:56
And then since I've moved back to Canada, we've reconnected and hang out on a regular basis. And one thing that I always think about - when we're when we're hanging and you're just dropping wisdom, right left and center - is that I can't believe I'm the only one that gets to hear this. So, part of my excitement is that I get to share, Adrienne Leslie-Toogood with the world.
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 5:22
Oh, that's very nice.
Matt Johnston 5:24
With, you know, whoever the world may be.
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 5:27
Whoever the millions who follow in due time, in due time.
Matt Johnston 5:32
So, I thought we'd start off with when you're at a cocktail party, or you see someone on the streets and they ask you, what do you do for a living? How do you how do you answer that question?
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 5:45
Well, first, I try to avoid the question, and I asked a lot about them. But yeah, I think that you know me well enough to know that I don't give simple answers to questions. And I work as, I guess a performance psychologist and definitely the place I'm most comfortable and got my feet wet is in sports and high-performance sport. And it's such a privilege to work in that world. And when I first moved back here, I had to think a little bit about why I wanted to do it because it seems a little bit shallow.
At first, I was working as an academic and lots of students and felt like I was making a pretty positive contribution to a lot of lives. And that's really important for me, I believe a lot in making the world a better place and living with meaning and purpose, because I don't think any of us know how long we're on this earth. And so, you know, that's our own unique contribution. And so, I do think about things a little bit more deeply than perhaps many - any - should. So, when I came back to this job, I was thinking about, well, why want to do this job? And when I thought about a couple things came to my mind and one was that, you know, it's not about helping someone live - or run faster, or like jump higher or whatever their sport might be, but it's helping someone live their human potential. And for me, it's the gifts they're born with and helping them realize it as like a journey and if I can help them to like me who they authentically are in really critical moments, I know that they're gonna be impacted profoundly, they're gonna live their lives differently, they're going to have an impact on others.
And so, I think that that's really important. And the other thing that's really, really important to me is I believe a lot and doing it in a in a way that you can honor who the person is, and help them to be well through a really, really tough journey. And the nice part is that I don't see those as mutually exclusive concepts. And I've thought a lot about it because the system doesn't always understand those parts. But I really do think this sustainable excellence and people's best is when they're authentically themselves and genuine and they don't lose that in those in those critical moments. And they bring who they are to what they do. And I have so many stories and examples that have really affirmed that regularly and in particular in the in the last few weeks. And for me, what's interesting too, is we're having a lot of conversation about safe environments, safe sport.
And I think that's a really complex conversation. And I think that it's complex because a lot of times when people are in those environments, they're very afraid to share the entirety of who they are. And I think the amazing part about my work is I get to create an environment where I get to see people and see people in their vulnerability. And that's, that's a real privilege and a real honor. And I get to help them learn how to share that in other contexts and with other people. And I think we get into trouble when people aren't comfortable sharing those parts of themselves. And then people respond and react to them in a way that's very hurtful. Yet they don't communicate openly about the pain that it's causing them and there's a lot of fear and complication around that. I guess, I just try and keep people whole, and try and help them be amazing and stay out of their way really, and just help keep bringing them back. Sometimes there's an accountability piece to it. I've had an athlete recently who - a lot of people I could hear talking about the effort they weren't producing and the things that weren't happening, but they weren't saying that directly to that person. Yeah.
And they wanted that person have the privilege to be their best. And I knew that they weren't going to achieve the results they wanted without that information. And at first, they found that very difficult. And then, about three weeks later came back and thanked me for that. Because they recognized that, yeah, they needed to be held accountable. And I think sometimes our fears and other things get in the way of us being our best. And I'm able to do it in a way where it's not shameful, and it's not judgmental. I think that's incredibly important.
And so, I very much value and honor the person that's sitting in front of me, and I recognize that they're doing their very best. And I don't have the same pressures on me. And I get to be that person who has conversations, and I leave a lot of openness to them as well, because I'm not the expert. They're the expert on themselves, and they know what they do and do not need. I just get to gently remind them have conversations about why that's difficult and do those things. The mental skills part about it - when people think about sports psychology, they often think about like imagery and visualization and the skills and I think that might be a component of it, but that's the less common complex part about it.
Anyone can grab a book on it. I think the figuring out who you are and who you want to be and how you want to live your life, the things that get in the way on managing your response, just when you figure it out, it doesn't get easier. And I think that providing a non-judgmental ear where I can listen to them and help them continue to strive because everyone wants to continue to strive, we just get scared, and we start to protect ourselves. So yeah, so that would be the answer of what I do sometimes. And it's, again, it's an absolute honor and a privilege to be invited into people's lives in a very real way.
Matt Johnston 10:36
That is one hell of an introduction.
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 10:39
It's a long answer.
Matt Johnston 10:41
Yeah, you know, what I want to dive into right away - because I've been on the receiving end of this and you're amazing at creating this - this safe place where someone can explore all that you just shared. So, this idea of helping someone be - as you said - their authentic best. What goes into finding that? Because we read a Hallmark postcard and you hear these ideals, but you're the one who helps draw it out of some of the best athletes in the world - and certainly the best athletes that we have in this country. So, can you speak a little bit?
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 11:20
Yeah. And what I'd say is that it's a very individual process. And I think that the rate at which it happens and how it happens unfolds depending on the person that I'm in the room with, and I don't get ahead of them. And so, I think patience is a part of it. I draw a lot on different things. I steal a lot of things but no, I draw on the little things and I really like some of the work of Carl Rogers and the idea of unconditional acceptance, and creating a relationship where, you know, it's non-judgmental, it's unconditionally accepting. And I think that modeling that behavior helps people learn to do it for themselves. And I do think that-
Matt Johnston 12:02
How do you model that?
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 12:05
I think that you - I guess a couple of ways. One is that I'm not, my cup doesn't get filled by your performance. And my needs are met in other places. And I'm 100% here for you. And I respond and react to you the same way regardless of you have the best or the worst performance of your life. And I firmly believe that every performance you have is an opportunity to learn and grow. And once we start to judge ourselves, then we stop learning and we stop growing and we become afraid. And so, I think that I create an environment where people can always learn, grow, explore and become better. I use a lot of analogies and there was someone who was the explorer for like Canadian Geographic or something went around the world and she was exploring caves and things and I was reflecting on my work with the people I do. And the neat thing about exploration is you don't know what you're going to find, and you go looking for things. And then you can introduce those things to the world.
And I think that people who perform at the highest levels, it's an exploration, but it's an inward exploration. And the reason why we love listening to them is they often go places that we've never been. And so, I just try and, you know, partner with them for that. The other thing that I do, too, is I believe a lot and having processes and mechanisms in place. And so, we have like ongoing debriefing processes. So, it's just a natural part of our experience. So, we don't wait until we've had a really challenging moment to learn and grow. We're learning and growing all the time, and it's just what we do. And I actually think that's incredibly important, because otherwise we hold on to things and we protect, and we don't jump in, in the same way. So, you know, I don't know. I guess I'm willing to fail. I'm wearing willing to learn, I'm willing to be wrong. Yeah.
And I'm willing to still smile and keep going. In some ways, I think you model the behavior as well. And I think just recently, I've really started to see that I'm a very strong person and I'm a real leader. And I don't think I always saw myself in that way. And I think that that gives other people the courage to also become that, you know, to be strong and to lead and to grow. And in in all environments, but for sure, in a sport environment, and corporate environments, whenever there's a power differential, a coach has a lot of control over an athlete. A boss has lost control over the people that work for them. I think it's really difficult sometimes, and we maybe undervalue the impact we have on that athlete or that person in their capacity to learn and grow and reflect and deal with failure. Hmm.
Because I think sometimes our identity and our egos wrapped up in it, and that makes it challenging for those people to have the courage to go to the edge when they feel they're letting everyone down.
Matt Johnston 14:52
I was thinking we might get to this a little bit later, but you do a lot of work with coaches in sport, but also on the corporate side. You work with executives; the challenge of leadership is so difficult. How do you give a leader this self-awareness to be able to sort of support others in that capacity?
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 15:12
Well, I think that - I don't think I could give them self-awareness, but I can create an environment where they can develop it for themselves. And I think you nailed it. I think that's the number one thing, they have to have self-awareness. I think one of the things that I can sometimes do is have honest conversation with them around the implications of their actions.
And then sometimes, as well, I'll have to create opportunities for people underneath them to share what they really need to share because they're not always comfortable sharing it. And we have to find a way where they can say what they need to, so the person is able to learn and grow and understand the impact of their actions. But you meet people, you know - there's another model that I like a lot it's called Stages of Change. And it looks at - it was initially developed for people in the addiction area because it's very difficult to work with people who have an addiction. They developed a model called the Stages of Change, you sort of assess where someone is in that change process, and you provide them your roles defined by where they are.
And so probably the same approach would happen with someone in a leadership role, you know, assessing where they are in that change process. Are they ready to change? Are they curious? Did someone else send them to talk to me?
Matt Johnston 16:21
Yeah.
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 16:22
And then depending on where they are in that process, that would be part of it. And the other part of it, too, is they're human being as well. So, honoring who they are recognizing that it's very difficult to change, especially in those environments. There's usually complexity to it. There's perhaps other demands on them that aren't being valued in that way. There's just there's always a story. And I think I'm just always really interested in the story. It's never my story, but I want to know what their story is.
And I want to understand what their experiences are and then look for ways to either have a conversation or learn more or set them up to learn more. It just changes I think with every person that that I that I meet and everyone I meet with, I'm always like, "Oh, well, I hope I can help them. We'll see how it goes." Because I'm - every interaction, I don't know if I can, it depends on if we can develop a trusting relationship. And if they're going to let me in, and my job is always just to be invited in a very respectful way, and in a way that they're comfortable with so that they can, you know, so that can be of assistance, otherwise, I can't and that's okay, too.
Matt Johnston 17:26
What are the common things that people would come to you for? Let's start with athletes, what are they? What are the common things that that most that most athletes would come to you for?
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 17:36
A wide range. For sure can be performance related, where they're not achieving the results they would like to. Usually that's connected to a pressure where they've had some very good results and now, they're not achieving those results anymore. Sometimes it's mental well-being, mental health related, where they're just not even - they're not functioning. As well as they would like, and they're not able to perform, but more importantly, they're just not mentally well.
So that's definitely one of them. And then I sometimes work in a very preventative manner in sport as well, where we're simply embedded because we understand that human beings are complex, and we want to maximize the performance of that human being. And that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with anyone. It just means that we need to help them understand themselves as a person, we need to help them maybe with emotional and mental recovery. We just want to really get to know the context and environment and do everything we can to help them maximize their potential.
Matt Johnston 18:41
Do you find that you know, - obviously from when you're in different contexts from sport to sport, then out of sport and then yeah, into business, the technical components are going to be different and the scenery will be different? So how much does the relationship change with individuals as the vertical changes?
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 19:02
Yeah, I think you have to be very familiar with the environment or the context. And they also think you have to know the language that's being used. And I try to spend a lot of time learning. So, if I'm working with emergency medical doctors, I will go and spend the night with them and see what it's like, you know, and understand their environment and their context. And then I always try to have conversation and figure out what their needs are.
When I first moved back to Canada. One of the first sports I worked with the coach was, you know, very powerful figure and liked to have a lot of control. I knew that I needed to figure out what his needs were, and I had to satisfy those needs, if I was going to have any opportunity to work - really work - with his team. So, we went for lunch, I learned and then I tried to solve the problems that he had. And I think that's - I'm always learning I'm always asking questions. I'm never right. I really want them to educate me on what the complexities of their environment on. I think that the context is important. And then at the end of the day, you have humans. I do think that there's definitely some commonalities across contexts for sure.
And I think that life is a performance sport. I think sometimes you know, you see some jobs is more performance oriented, where you have an air traffic controller or you have an RCMP emergency response team member, or you have an emergency medical doctor, we see that as very performance oriented. But you know, at the end of the day, I think we all should step back and reflect on the lives that we want to lead and who we want to be in certain moments, in certain relationships. Too often, we wait until we're unwell. And then we make changes in our lives so that we can live with meaning and purpose. And none of us know how long we're here. And none of us know how much time we have to really savor the moments and be with the people we love. And so, I don't think it's a bad thing for anyone.
We're performing all the time and we sometimes invest a lot of energy in certain contexts, what maybe a work context more than a personal context. But the blend and the balance in our lives is very important. And it's our life at the end of the day. And I think it's important to think what gives us energy and where we want to spend our life energy and how we want to live and contribute. And with my athletes, it's very clear to see because there's time where there's outcome attached to it. And so, we're very conscious about trying to ensure that they're always ready to maximize our potential and otherwise a lot of people discuss it. So therefore, it forces our hand at that conversation. And I think in sport, what we've learned is that there is a human element to it. And balancing recovery is incredibly important.
And you have to respect the human being that's doing it, or they won't last, and they won't - it won't be sustainable. But in day to day life, I think it's the same thing too often in a corporate context, you have people who aren't invested in what they're doing. They're kind of going through the motions and yet what we know is that people who work and do things with meaning and purpose, they'll there'll be more well, and they'll enjoy other elements of their life. There really is - You just you can't do high performance sport, kind of with half effort and half engagement and I don't know, I don't think that life is meant to be that way either.
Matt Johnston 22:17
So, with that in mind, one of the things that we've talked about - and I know this comes into your into your work that crosses the boundary of sport - but you work with as we as we spoke to some of the best athletes in the world. And the regiments that they go through, not just from a mechanics standpoint and technical, but the exercises that you put them through on a regular basis, help them show up as the best they can be each day. And I found it so curious, just watching myself moving out a sport that I quickly - like right away, I gave up some of those practices. I'm just curious if we could get into the weeds a bit of what some things that you like to take from sport and transfer them over to people trying to live an exceptional life?
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 23:14
Well, first, I definitely think that it has to be sustainable. When I always say to people that if we're adding things that are really stressful to do, we're kind of defeating the purpose. But I definitely I believe in staying well, you know, and I think that we understand that from a physical wellness standpoint. Where we know that we have to eat healthy, we know that we have to fuel and hydrate accordingly.
And a lot of the illnesses that we deal with now are not - you know, we don't wake up with heart disease or cancer, you know, we might have a genetic predisposition. But certainly, there are some choices we make every day, whether it's carrying the emotional weight of things or you know, drinking a lot of alcohol or whatever, there's different lifestyle things that can definitely contribute to those things. And with mental health and wellness, I'm not sure we see it in the same manner. And so, I definitely work a lot with people to develop practices so that they can live a sustainable life.
And for me that's paying attention to what works for you. Myself, personally, I know that I really love hot yoga, and I need to do it like three times a week. I know that the blend of spending time with my family and being available for my kids is incredibly important to me. And I remember very clearly when my daughter was first born, and I was an academic down in the United States. And I was teaching summer classes and I'm kind of a perfectionist, I'm really kind of a high standard person. And I was getting ready to teach this class and I had this young, you know, three-month-old at home.
And I remember this moment of clarity where I was like, hmm, so I'm given 100% over here. When would that stop? I'm like, unless I make the choice and I make the decisions of how I want to do this. It's never gonna end. And so, I definitely, you know, honored what I needed to do in my work. But from then on, I literally didn't take anything home and my colleagues were actually quite astounded by it. They're like "You're leaving without?" and I'm like, "No, when I'm here, I'm 100% present and when I'm home 100% present," and that was a choice I wanted to make. But I've definitely, you know, sat down and had moments and other times when I was in academia, where publishing is very valued. I definitely wanted to do enough to retain my job.
But when I reflected on what I'd find meaningful at the end of my life, it was - not surprisingly - the relationship I'd have with my students. And if I had a meaningful conversation that helps someone live their life differently, helped them make different choices, if I supported someone, those are the things I was going to remember. I wanted to make sure to stay connected to what gave me energy. I definitely encourage people to reflect on what gives them energy and why they do what they want to do and what's what they value. In any occupation, it doesn't matter how mundane or how glamorous and amazing it is, there's always components that are work.
And there's always components that you love and that attracted to you to it in the first place. And no one is going to sit you down and ask you, you know, what gives you energy? What do you value and there's never time for it, you have to carve out the time so that you have the energy to do all the other things? But I really think that the recovery is incredibly important. I also, you know, think everyone's busy. And so, I believe in understanding someone someone's life, and where does it fit in. Someone is driving back and forth, you know, if they're driving home, and they have a half hour an hour commute? Well imagine if they're doing some breathing on that drive.
And imagine if they're reflecting on their day and what they did well, and what they might want to do better in the future and how they would do that what they learned from today. And then imagine if they're kind of letting go of what happened there and then they're 100% present, and the person they want to be when they walk in the door and spend time with their family. And I think that the more we're able to do that on a consistent basis, then the more we're able to handle the ebbs and flows. of life. In my experience, life is just - it's tough. And you're given a lot and sometimes more than you think you can handle.
We need to work to stay well, so we can engage fully with this deal called life. So, we don't have to protect ourselves so that we don't have to disengage, we get to just, you know, be fully present and live completely. One of the things that I definitely see getting in the way of that is when people when people do make mistakes when they fail, and I think there's this emotional burden to it, there's so much shame associated with it. But I do think having processes in place that you can reflect and learn. And if that is interpersonal, so if it's a matter of having a conversation with someone, that's a component of it, but we don't shy away with it. We're bold enough, and we have courage to do what we need to do so that we can continue to live the life that we want to live. And we just don't I don't think we even have time.
So that's another thing too is having time to reflect and pause. In terms of what works for you, but I'm not a big like, you know, app person where it's like every day - because I don't know if that works for you or me or anyone you know. I think that being honest with yourself about what works for you and what you need and starting to understand the difference between you are emotionally well and not well. There's a - Canadian Mental Health Association has sort of a mental health continuum. And this idea that, you know, what's the difference between when you're well, and when you're struggling and when you're unwell.
And I do think that our misunderstanding of what strength is, that sometimes we pretend we're doing better than we are and we don't ask for resource and there's, you know, there's no shame. And you know, being honest and being real with yourself and getting things out of the body and dealing with them along the way. I don't know sustainability is big for me. You know, and again, working with a person to find out what works for them.
Matt Johnston 29:04
It's a great answer. I know I am keeping an eye on time and I want to make sure that we get you on your way to your next appointment. I just have a couple more questions. Just to follow up with that is we're like, I think that there's some great thoughts and exercises and what you just said. For someone who doesn't have the opportunity to maybe, work with a coach on a regular basis. What are what are some of the books or resources that you most often recommend to people?
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 29:39
Oh, goodness, that would be difficult to answer. For example, a coach just emailed me and asked me for books, and I gave them five that were incredibly different. Because again, it would depend a lot on that person. And I think sometimes books are helpful, and I think sometimes books are a way to feel like you're doing the work when you're really not. Because I think the most important book to read is your own - as in reflect, think about yourself.
So, I would suggest for anyone to grab a book and read it. But don't grab 200 books and read them. Grab a book, read it and try and live it and try and be vulnerable, try and learn. And then once you're done that, okay, then maybe grab another book. But the answers aren't always in books. And I would encourage anyone who does read a book to critically reflect on the book, does that fit with what their beliefs are? Does it not fit? What is their experiences? Get them to write their own. What would they write in a book if they were going to write a book? So yeah, it's difficult to recommend a book. I do read quite a bit. Right now, I'm going through a bit of a lull. I went through a period where I read a ton and I'm like, I'm reading like magazines and just fun things. But yeah, I really enjoy reading. But I also think that sometimes we can rely on reading instead of doing the work.
Matt Johnston 30:55
Thank you. Thank you, I I'm going to take that to heart myself. The classic, I'm going to read three books about meditation before I actually start down the line.
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 31:07
And if you were to buy Jon Kabat-Zinn's Meditation for Beginners, what's kind of hilarious is on his first CD, it's kinda, you know, the first couple - I guess, podcast segments, we'll even call them - where he talks a little bit about it, he says, don't tell people you're meditating, if you're gonna tell them, instead of doing that for five minutes, just go meditate, you know what I mean? Like he's like, talking about, it's gonna do nothing for you. You actually - if you want your, if you want your brain to change in your relationship to your thoughts to change, then you need to practice mindfulness, you can't talk about it.
And I do believe a lot in that, like I I'm not like a cognitive behavior person where it's like change your thoughts, say all these positive things to yourself. I'm more of a be calm so that you can determine which thoughts you want to pay attention to and which thoughts aren't helpful for you at this moment. And don't attach meaning and purpose to your thoughts. Who cares what you think if they're not a benefit to you? You then choose to think other things right now. I think that otherwise those, those things tend to like, "Oh my gosh, I'm thinking that I'm not supposed to be thinking that," we can get all rattled by it. And I do think that the human brain is meant to thank and mean to - there's all sorts of things that go through there.
One of my colleagues who's actually in town right now, I just saw him walking, he's with Team Canada basketball. Literally, I texted, I'm like, "Are you in town?" And he one of his analogy is like, "The brain's like a wild horse. I'm not sure why everyone chooses to hop on it." You know, and I, you know, like, why would you do that? Just let the horse go, my God. And I, you know, I think that that's a great analogy for the brain. But everyone's different in terms of what they need. But I certainly do like for me yoga, other people it's meditation, some people it's mindfulness. Everyone needs to figure out what their cocktail of wellness is and embrace it just because I want to be well, I want to be able to do this the way I want to do it.
Matt Johnston 32:53
Thank you. I will, we'll call it time for right now. And hopefully, this can be this can be a "to be continued."
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 33:01
Okay, sure!
Matt Johnston 33:02
Adrienne, thank you so much for, for being on the show today but for all that you do. You are a gift to me, a gift to all the athletes that you work with, and we're really lucky to have you doing what you're doing.
Dr. Adrienne Leslie-Toogood 33:19
Thanks. I appreciate that.