Episode 06: Designing a Life on your Terms with Tripp Lanier
Tripp Lanier 0:00
We can't always plan or strategize what the cool things are going to be in life. But if you're in the game, if you're doing your thing, if you're engaging the world and you're showing up, those things have a tendency to reveal themselves. But they don't reveal themselves once you're with - you're just sitting on the sidelines waiting for stuff. You don't catch waves unless you paddle out.
Matt Johnston 0:17
The human experience is the greatest project any of us will undertake. It's often the one we spend the least amount of time working on. My name is Matt Johnston. I'm a self-professed personal development junkie, retired pro golfer, I now work for an organization that provides employee and health benefits to hundreds of thousands of people. It should be common sense to realize that what happens at work is what people bring home in what happens at home comes to them to work, but that's too often ignored. That's why each week I hope to uncover a little more around what it means to be a human working and living in the 21st century. We'll be learning from experts, having conversations and getting insights know all those things that fall at the intersection of life and work, emotional and physical health. skills and money, all the relationships we navigate each day. And of course, the purpose and meaning we all desire. This is The Human Assignment.
Welcome to - or welcome back to - The Human Assignment podcast. I'm thrilled to share a conversation I had with a dear friend of mine, coach, now author, podcast host Tripp Lanier. Tripp Lanier is best known for being the host of the New Man Podcast: Beyond the Macho Jerk and the New Age Wimp, which has been downloaded over a million times - many millions of times over the last decade. Since 2005, Tripp has spent thousands of hours coaching people all around the world to, as he says, get out of the rat race, become an authority in their field and make a great living doing the work that they were put on this earth to do. His clients range from Navy SEALs to best-selling authors to professional athletes to high profile executives to as he says, the guy that's living up the street from us.
I first met Tripp about seven or eight years ago, when I was playing golf full time, and on the road, and in buses, and standing in line, and on airplanes and found myself bingeing on podcasts and audiobooks to pass the time and I just couldn't get enough of this New Man show. And I was drawn to it initially because of the high-profile guests that he had on Laird Hamilton, Steven Pressfield, Tim Ferriss, Neil Strauss, but what hooked me was this host Tripp Lanier this he just seemed like, such a cool guy, a grounded guy. He was a running his own business. He was a surfer, a musician and a men's coach, and was just he was asking interesting questions.
And of course, I loved the interviews that he was doing with these well-known guests, but to me it was really the interviews that he did with the people like his wife, and he had therapists on the on the show his friends and they dug into topics that I was craving for people to talk about at the time. What it meant to be a grounded man in the 21st century. What are grounded relationships? What are - talking about all parts of relationships, the good, the bad, the ugly, sex, money, nutrition, all aspects of nutrition, how to be mindful, it was exactly what I wanted to hear and I just I thought to myself, I need to meet this guy. So, I reached out to Tripp and formed a relationship and started getting coached by him and he hasn't been able to get away from me since. I've stopped him and his poor family. His wife, his wife, Allison has become a good friend of mine as well and I've had a chance to spend time with them in their home in North Carolina where they live close to the beach. And what amazes me about those two is - or at least it would inspire me about those two is that every time I get a chance to be around them, I'm forced to be a better person. They really walk the talk. They're just so committed to living intentionally. They're so committed to their - the values they have in their relationship and constantly growing there. They're certainly challenging people to be to be around at times, because they're pushing you to be your best, but you know, pushing you to be honest with yourself.
I'm just I'm really grateful for the work that they do in the world and for the positive influence they've had in my life. So, I'm just thrilled to have the opportunity to share Tripp Lanier with you, I think you'll really enjoy this interview. It's wide ranging, we get to talk about his path, the book that he's just written and will be coming out, hopefully sometime next year. We look forward to hopefully we'll get him on again to talk about the book as it comes out. But it's my pleasure to share with you Tripp Lanier, please enjoy.
Tripp, welcome to the show.
Thanks Matt. Thanks for having me.
Thanks, so much for being here. You know what my - I think my favorite part to this point about having my podcast is that I get to call up friends and force them to talk to me for an hour where otherwise they'd wiggle out a little quicker.
Tripp Lanier 5:23
Yeah.
Matt Johnston 5:25
So, thank you for being here. I've obviously been inspired by your podcast for years. And that's actually how we first met was I was listening to your podcast the New Man and I said, "Who is this guy? I want to find out more." And you haven't been able to get rid of me since.
Tripp Lanier 5:52
It's been a while. I'm glad it's good having you around. Good company.
Matt Johnston 5:57
I've forced you to. You're brainwashed at this point to say that so.
Tripp Lanier 6:03
No.
Matt Johnston 6:04
Well, Tripp I'll give you all sorts of praise today, but you've been a huge role model and influence and support in my life. I'm thrilled to be able to maybe share some of the things that you're doing in the world with people that are listening to the show here. But I thought I'd get it get going by asking -when you're sitting at a dinner party or out and about and people ask you what you do for a living, how do you answer that question?
Tripp Lanier 6:34
That depends, you know, because if I say I'm a coach, a lot of people like "Oh, like little league or like high school basketball or something?" A lot of folks don't understand what a professional coach is, so I usually think of something on the spot to, you know, it's like, "Well, I help people make transitions. They were doing pretty good. They've done really well in their lives and they want to do you know, they want to transition to something else, and I'm that guy to help them with that, or they've been hiding in the shadows and they realize there's something they really want to do they want to be an authority in their field, I help them do that," or, you know, just I come up with a kind of feel into where this person is and who I'm talking to. And, and I try to tell them a story about some of the people that I've helped. Whether it's been Navy SEALs, or executives or just the regular guy off the street, you know, helping help them go from I do pretty well. I want to do really great in my life, and I want to align what I really care about with how I make a living and the people that are in my life too.
Unknown Speaker 7:33
That's a better answer than I get for most people at cocktail parties.
Unknown Speaker 7:36
Yeah, well, you would be into that, right? I want to be like, just, I don't even with somebody like, "I do XYZ." I'm like, what does that mean? What does that mean? Like I don't even know. So, I get curious.
Matt Johnston 7:48
Well, I want to come back to just the work of a coach and what that means a little bit later. But getting to that point to be able to give that answer. You've had - you started as - you're a musician, you started a business right out of college, and it wasn't a direct path to becoming a coach. So how did you go from rock star, you know, you've owned your own business, you're a surfer to this world of personal development. It seems like it seems like a linear path to me.
Tripp Lanier 8:22
I like to eat. So, I had I wanted to learn some business skills, right. I had a weird path. I was, you know, in art school, essentially. And I remember one day my - the guy, you know, - the guidance counselor person, whoever they are, they were like, "Yeah, you're graduate next semester," and I was like, "I'll starve, I'll be dead within a matter of weeks after, like I need to, I need to learn how to do something here." And so, I transitioned into TV and film production and just love telling stories in that way. I went into that school and I still was at a school pretty quickly after that, but it gave me a set of skills to be able to go out and start a company really quickly. I was young and dumb enough to think like, yeah, I could start my own company. And I was, you know, there's something about being young and bold.
And so, five months out of school, I started a post-production company and I had a lot of support. I was I was surrounded by some veterans that were in the business. Essentially, I was a sole proprietor and - but I was there to support them, but I was I got to call the shots in my own way. So that was it was a wonderful opportunity. And I did that for 12 years. And it was one of those things I've fell into, but I always knew that I wanted to have a - lifestyle was always the key for me. It was I always looked at earning money as a means to have the lifestyle that I wanted. So, it was like, "Well, what do I want to do? I want to be able to travel I want to be able to make my own records. I want to be able to do, you know, to live a certain way. Okay, what does that cost? Okay, what's the most fun energizing way to do that? What's the most fun energizing way to pay for that lifestyle?"
I've always just approached working from that perspective. And that first company was totally designed to do that. I was like, "Okay, this lifestyle cost X amount, and I know that I want to have a lot of time and energy left over so I can go do these other things." And so, I created that. It wasn't easy. There were a lot of ups and downs, but that - after a while, I was able to have somebody working for me and I was gone a lot. And you know, I was doing the four-hour workweek kind of thing before that book ever came out. And that said, I'd always been hungry for depth. I'd always been hungry for the bigger questions in life. And I'd had a big awakening in my life. I was probably around 26 or so. And it was just like, "Well, okay, what am I really doing here?" And I didn't want to stay like I just couldn't imagine staying on that trajectory that I was on even though it looked amazing from the outside.
It was like, "Gosh, so many people kill to have the lifestyle that I've got and everything but for me, I just like this can't be it like this, this is not challenging for me, this isn't really aligned with who I am and what I want to do anymore." And I think I was on some retreat somewhere and I was - some guys like me and you know, "You'd be a great coach, you just ask great questions." And I had an intuitive I was like, "Wait, you could get paid to, to have these conversations and to, you know, make your life around this kind of thing?" And he's like, "Absolutely, yeah, there's, there's a whole industry of that," and I was like, "Sign me up." And so that began the journey into becoming a coach and you know, long story short, I ended up selling my business and selling the house and all that kind of stuff moving to Boulder and starting a new life that was in service of that transition into becoming a professional coach and podcast started out of that and just the rest is history.
Matt Johnston 11:52
The rest is history, it's easy yeah.
Tripp Lanier 11:57
So, easy. [Laughs]
Matt Johnston 12:00
You said that you were at your - at a retreat and someone said that we can have How did you how did you get to retreat in the first place? Where did that interest come?
Tripp Lanier 12:09
Oh well, I've gone through a big - I don't know, awakening seems like a real New Age way to talk about it - but essentially I just had a realization like, "Gosh, there's so much more to life than making money in chasing girls and trying to get attention with music and that kind of thing." And I'd gotten really into philosophy, Eastern mysticism, personal growth stuff to a certain extent. And so, I was just in a position to like, "Alright, I want to learn I want to go I want to participate in these things. I want to just dive in," and I was really a guinea pig. modality, I just want to I wanted to try things.
I was going on meditation retreats or these men's groups, men's retreats, type things, and I'd read about it. I just feel like alright; I want to do that. And I had the means, and I had the schedule that allowed it. So, there was really no reason why I couldn't to just hop on planes and go participate in these types of things. So, and that was that was very impactful. And I'm grateful for that. Because from early age, I got to see that there was a life beyond books, you know, a lot of us will kind of live at the realm of books and information. And then there's another realm, which is, we can have these peak experiences in these retreats, which are, "Wow." And then we come back to our life and like, "Oh, well, I'm back here now."
And so that's where I got to really appreciate the power of coaching, which is, "Hey, we're going to implement this stuff over the long haul. It's not just some peak experience. And it's not just information," it's about the discipline and the work and taking risk on a regular basis. And so I appreciate that I got a really condensed experience of that early on, that there were there were benefits to information, benefits to these peak experiences that you get at a retreat and then, "Oh, this is where coaching fits in is," if I really want to make a change, it comes from - lasting change comes from consistent effort.
Matt Johnston 14:08
Did you have coaches yourself during that period?
Tripp Lanier 14:12
I didn't have coaches, I had people in my life that played mentorship roles. And I, there was a lot of -probably I look back on it now - of peer coaching. I mean, there were guys that I was in a men's group with that are now - they were they were either at the time or they are now - leaders in this in this in certain fields in this industry. So it wasn't, you know, just Joe Blow who, who runs x kind of, you know, roofing company over here that I was working with, I mean, these were really extraordinary guys.
I was fortunate enough to be in a community with some guys and I learned a lot from them about how to lead. They'd gone through lots of trainings and that kind of thing. In a way that I had a real crash course in that in that way. Where every Tuesday night, two hours sitting in a circle was - holy shit like, it was it was a group of ninjas. And then I got to find my seat in that group and really take my own space and that group in belong, but it was wonderful to be able to learn from them too.
Matt Johnston 15:24
I've been lucky enough to be a part of some of these groups because of you. What would happen - what is a men's group?
Tripp Lanier 15:31
It can vary, right? But I would say that it's recognizing that we are stronger when we hang out with other men. Most of us though, are settling for hanging out with guys watching the game having a beer. I would rather that happen more than nothing happening, which is a lot of guys are kind of getting into this phase of like, well if it's not if I'm not at work or I'm not with family, then I can't justify doing it. But there's a there's a kind of a nutrition that we get -there's nutrients that we get by spending time with other men that we can't get from our wives, that we can't get from our work. But we're, whether we know it or not, we're trying to get it from those things. And it's one of the reasons why we feel really empty, and why we feel like we're not enough, why we feel kind of drained.
There’s something that happens when we get rid of the distractions and start really connecting with other men. "Hey, what's really going on in your life? What are you up to? What is it that you really want to be doing? I'm going to support you in that I'm going to challenge you, I think you're hiding out I think that you're dicking around. I think that you're..." It's being willing to be in those places where you're seeing, "Hey, this is what I really care about. This is what I really stand for." And then also challenged and supported in that.
And what this does is it takes a lot of pressure off of our marriage and - or our relationship and our work to fulfill us in some way. And also takes a lot of pressure off of our - usually our wives are the ones that are know that we're dicking around and there's a they start to nag and like, "Why aren't you doing this? Why aren't you doing that?" you're just like, "Shut up." I thought, you know, that creates that dynamic a lot better when you come home from a men's group like, "Man, they kind of kicked my ass tonight." She's like, "Alright, sorry, honey, I'll fix you a beer." You know, [laughs] she can play that role.
And there's an appreciation that we're getting that challenge and support to be to live in alignment with who we really are. And, you know, I look at it through the lens of like, yeah, what if what if something unfortunate happened? And we had to bury you, you know, what would we what would we celebrate about you? And then what would we be disappointed like, "Oh, man, you know, he always talked about doing this thing in his life. And I always wish he had." Or "He had so much potential for this thing and I wish he'd done that more." And it's really like, "This guy had gifts to give and he didn't give them," or we're going to celebrate like, "I'm glad that guy gave his gifts. He didn't hide out. He wasn't afraid to be uncomfortable. He wasn't afraid to take risks, or he was afraid to be uncomfortable. He was afraid to take risks. He was afraid to look like a moron, but he did it anyway."
I find that those are the types of guys that thrive in these types of men's groups where they're calling for that. They just feel called and they want it more depth, they want more alignment. And they're like, "Yeah, I want to, I want to feel challenged. And I want to know that when my head hits when my head hits the pillow at night, I know that I'm living in alignment with my values, and I'm not waiting around until some magical thing comes along gives me permission to do it."
Matt Johnston 18:21
Yeah, well, I just want to first say that I, what I found in in the groups that I've been in with you is that it's amazing to come into this this room and we do it virtually for the most part, where you've got these - you've got this group of people that are in your corner. And for the most part, they're not a part of our daily lives, but they're there in the huddle with you and it really is powerful.
Tripp Lanier 18:46
And they're not your friends. I think that's a - they don't have to be your friends. There's a thing that happens when we become friends where we're like, "I want to say this because I don't want to disrupt our friendship." So, the people in our lives that we consider our friends, a lot of times we really can't connect, we can't count on them to tell us the truth. There's too much at stake. It's like, "Ah, well, our kids play together, and our wives get along? If I say this thing you might, you know, I don't know how he's gonna take it." So, but when there's an agreement with one another, like, "Hey, we don't have to be friends here. But we can really care for one another. And I care about you so much that I'm willing to say things that might be uncomfortable," that that reveals a whole new level of what's possible in our connection and in the relating. I find that that's an asset to not have to play defense or protect the relationship.
Matt Johnston 19:39
Well, this I mean, this is at least from my set of the fence is your work. And you 11 plus years ago launched a podcast called the New Man: Beyond the Macho Jerk and the New Age Wimp. It's just amazing the content you have in there. How did that come about?
Tripp Lanier 19:57
I was coaching some guys - some young guys who had started a company that was essentially a podcasting network. And so, they were creating a lot of different podcasts and their business model was that they were going to sell advertising and partnerships and that kind of thing. And I was coaching some of these guys, more on an executive level type thing to help them with their leadership stuff. They were young and inexperienced.
And as we were coaching, they were just like, "You should have your own podcast, this is the way you talk. And the way that you just deliver information just should - it'd be great." And I was like, I don't even know what a podcast is, you gotta understand like this. This was not a - this was not familiar at all. And I was like, well, I'll do it. If I can say what I want to say. I don't want to tiptoe around sponsors, and I'll do it if you know XYZ. I had some, you know, kind of things. They're like, great. And, you know, at that time, there was a team of people and you could set it up and one of the guys that started back then he's still with me today. He does all the technical stuff.
I don't know if it would have happened otherwise, it was just a, you know, confluence of all these things coming together. And so, you know, they had a studio and I'd show up and people would show up, and we could talk or whatever. And it was just a lot of fun. But it's one of those lessons that we learn in life is like, we can't always plan or strategize what the cool things are going to be in life. But if you're in the game, if you're doing your thing, if you're engaging the world, and you're showing up, then those things just ship. Those things have a tendency to reveal themselves, but they don't reveal themselves once you - if you're just sitting on the sidelines waiting for stuff, you gotta - you don't catch waves unless you paddle out, right. So, it's like, you got to paddle out.
And that was that was me paddling out and just being in the water and being in the right position and having something cool. So even though those companies that company no longer existed, I inherited the show and kept it going for, you know, a decade plus it's almost 12 years now.
Matt Johnston 21:52
And the theme Beyond the Macho Jerk and the New Age Wimp, you know, 12 years ago. How did how did you hone in on that?
Tripp Lanier 21:59
I think that was back you know, there was a there was a different time I was very much in the men's growth - men's community type stuff that was there was a lot of influence from guys like David Data at that time. So, I think that was, it was essentially pointing to like, well, who wants to raise their hand and be like, "Yeah, I love being a macho jerk or I love being a new age wimp." And I wanted something that polarized people to be like, "Yeah, I don't want to be either one of those things. I don't want to be stuck in either one of those tiresome paradigms about how to operate in the world.
And so, it was like, "Okay, well, how do you navigate the world with brains, and heart and balls." And, and so that's always been consistent in the themes of what I do even though, you know, I've changed and grown so much and a lot of the topics that I talk about these days don't necessarily relate back to those elements of helping guys find their balls, or their heart or, you know, live with brains kind of thing. So, but they're still there. They're still underneath that stuff.
Matt Johnston 23:07
Well, you have 12 years later - you've, you have evolved and you're now you've written a book. I've read a couple of early versions, and it's awesome. Thank you. How does Tripp Lanier become an author?
Tripp Lanier 23:25
Um, it's a good question that I didn't - I didn't ever think that I would write a book. It just wasn't something that appealed to me. One of the reasons why is that I get a lot of books, as part of, you know, PR campaigns, and I throw a lot of them in the trash. And I hate to sound like a dick about it, but just a lot of them. There's this kind of homogenized "Three Steps to Whatever" kind of approach to growth and I just like - there's - that's not where growth happens. I'm a coach. I know the process of helping somebody go through growth and change. And so even as a podcaster, I want to help people get a - balance out the amount of information they're taking in and get more into implementation and get more into action. So, I felt at odds with creating a book. I was like, I don't want to give - If I'm going to give this guy six hours to do something. I don't know if I want him sitting on his ass reading. I want him out there doing something.
So, this guy, Ben Allen came to me and he was very tactful. He was like, well, that's a great place to start a book. It's like, why would you throw a lot of books in the trash? You know, what's your insight into that? And I was like, Alright, well, what's the book that I wish I'd had? You know, when I was in my late 20s, and I was getting into personal growth or I was getting into personal development and wanting to align my values with how I've earned a living or wanting to do you know, am I really in the right relationship? All these big questions that I had, and they all seem like they were gonna have a huge impact on the trajectory of my life. And I was like, what's the book that I wish I had? Well, I wouldn't - I want it to be fun. I'd want it to be funny. I want to be really practical, something I could use. And I want it to be something that I'd want to come back to over and over again. And I said, I think I could write that book. I think there's something there. So, I want to you know, shout out to Ben Allen for his enthusiasm because he kept - he stayed on me about that and finding mine. I went from like, "I don't have anything to say," to I probably wrote over 200,000 words, and then now we've cut it down to under 50. So apparently, I do have a lot to say.
Matt Johnston 25:41
I've known you for a long time. You've got a lot to say. No, I'm kidding. Well, I have - the book was - hit me at the right time. I want to start by asking about the three big threats. Can you can you speak to that? Because they that that part well beyond your opening, I don't know if you've changed it or not, your opening is phenomenal. And that's my hook to anyone once the book comes out, make sure you just buy it for the opening, because it's hilarious and so on point, but can we talk about the three big threats, if you will?
Tripp Lanier 26:19
When people come to me and they say, you know, "I want to, I want to find my purpose in life." I say, "Well, you're already living with the purpose. It just may not be what you think it is." And what I found is that 99% of the time, we are going through our lives, and we're making our choices to avoid three big things. We don't want to be uncomfortable. We don't mean meaning we don't obviously, we don't want to be uncomfortable physically. But most of the times we don't want to be uncomfortable emotionally, right. So, we don't want to have anything that comes up and we feel tense emotionally. We can feel tense, even just by making effort, or dealing with uncertainty. Or there's an emotional thing like oh, this might make me sad or angry or whatever. So, we go through life, "Okay, what do I do to avoid being uncomfortable?"
The second thing we do is we don't want to lose anything. Whenever we got, we don't want to lose it. So, this could be time. It could be energy. It can be money. But there's a sense of - that loss aversion is so powerful in us that we're going through our lives, minute by minute saying what do I do so I don't risk losing something. And then the third thing we're doing, and this is a big one is, "What do I do so I don't look like a moron?" Being accepted is so important to us and being admired is so important - as whoever we are, this self-image that we've created is incredibly important to us. And this goes back to, you know, just the wiring we have in our brain that if we did anything to get kicked out of the group, we were dead, right? I mean this when you speak about things from an evolutionary standpoint. This idea that we can't be rejected, or we can't look like a cheese dick - which I think is your favorite term is. What do I got to do to make sure I don't do anything that has me look stupid? Has me look like a loser? Has me look like a failure? Like whatever - fill in the blank. There's a thing in that - boring, I can't be boring. I can't be - can't stand out too much.
Everybody's different here. But there's a thing there, where we're protecting our self-image. So, when somebody says they don't have a purpose in life, or they say they have commitment issues, I said, "No, chances are, you're very purposeful, and you're very committed, you're committed to making sure you don't do anything that's uncomfortable. You're committed, making sure that you don't do anything that's risky, or that you could lose something, and you're committed to making sure you don't look bad." And I guarantee it. And so, when I'm coaching somebody, there's no such thing as self-sabotage, because all they're doing is just choosing avenues to make sure that they're not uncomfortable or doing anything that's risky or doing something that will make them look stupid. It's just all we're doing is just constantly avoiding those things. Throughout the day. We're constantly asking ourselves in every situation. Is this going to make me uncomfortable? Is this going to mean I'm going to lose something, is gonna make me look bad? And if we're unconscious to that, then we're just going to say, don't do it.
And this is how our lives get smaller, and smaller, and smaller, and smaller. So we may say to ourselves, oh, my mission in life is this or my purpose in life is this or my thing is this, if we really look at our choices, and we could just measure all of those choices and look at them with the choice, the choice of what shirt you wore today, how you chose to get to work, who you hang out with, like everything you do on a day to day basis, typically aligns with our desire to and our commitment to comfort, safety, and looking good.
And I don't think that's bad. We need a certain amount of that in life, right? It's just when we when we start to feel trapped and we start to feel drained, or we start to feel isolated, or we start to feel bored or overwhelmed. Those types of experiences those indicators to me that we've prioritized discomfort, safety, and looking good, too much that things have gotten out of balance. That means we're not we're not willing to look outside of our comfort zone.
Matt Johnston 29:59
What's the next step when you're coaching someone? How do you help someone gain the awareness of what's in the way? What you know, which one of those three threats or?
Tripp Lanier 30:08
Well, the first thing is just ask them, what do they want? I mean, we're gonna, there's no matter what we choose to do, it's gonna be uncomfortable, it's gonna feel risky, and it's gonna probably have some risk to, like, what are they going to think of me, I'm going to do an XYZ. So that's just a given. But most of us are like, I'll go do what I want, once I figure out a way to do it when it's when it's not uncomfortable, and when it's not risky, and when people won't judge me. So, we're kind of waiting around for this perfect scenario to show up and it just isn't going to happen. So, the coaching process is always coming back to what do you want? And then do you want it enough to go through the discomfort and the risk and the possibility to look like a moron?
Matt Johnston 30:48
I think this brings up another - maybe the next section of the book that I loved in and I'm going sequentially through the book - but I've been you know; I've listened to you speak to this for years. But the dashboard, I think that that that was really helpful for me your version of strength redefined. And this this dashboard that, that whether we know it or not everyone's is guiding us all.
Tripp Lanier 31:17
I think we all want something more than to just feel comfortable and safe and accepted like those things are the given. But I wouldn't call that fulfillment. I wouldn't call that where we experience joy. Because a lot of us come home every day and we're still comfortable and we're still safe and we're still accepted. But that's not where - we're not lit up. There's things like - this isn't like yeah, it's like, - that's not where we feel that sense of wholeness or completeness. It's more like, "Whoo, I outran another tiger today. I got through another day. It's just like I'm hanging in there." Like it's that mentality of just getting through it. I think there's more to life than getting through at least the people that I work with are aligned with that beliefs, which is like I don't want to just go get through life I want to really enjoy this. This is one life I've got I don't know what's after this. So, let's really enjoy it.
And what I found is that when I work with people and we say, "What do you really want?" We start to come back to these bigger questions. They typically give me outcomes, "Oh, I want to have X amount in the bank, I wanna have six pack abs, I want to have access to these women, I want to have the car or I just want to want to be an influencer. And I want to have the recognition and the impact to do XYZ over here." So, we create these scenarios and most often, we list outcomes. We see the outcomes that we want things that are measurable things that like, yeah, look at that. I could see myself doing that. That's where it is, I acquired that I can put that in my house, or I can put that in my bank account. Or I can say, look what I did. Again, not bad or wrong.
But those outcomes are just theories, their guesses about how we think we're going to feel so - we think that if we got XYZ, we're going to feel more free, we're going to feel more alive, we're going to feel more love and connection, we're going to feel more at peace. Because if we went through all of that stuff to go and create those outcomes, and we still felt trapped, we still felt drained. We still felt isolated, we still felt overwhelmed and stressed out, we'd be scratching ourselves like what's wrong here? What's wrong with me? What - this sucks. This isn't what I signed up for. So, you have a lot of people that do this, they go and create a - I've been this guy - I work with a lot of people that have created, quote, success in their lives.
But they don't understand why it results in having them feel trapped, or drained or isolated, or bored or overwhelmed. They don't realize that it's really - we're really planning for the experiences we want in our lives. Instead of "Okay, I want this thing I'm going to put my head down for two years, 20 years, 30 years and go create this career that outcome. And look, I've climbed the ladder. But hmm, something -there must be something wrong with me because I'm not happy, I don't feel fulfilled.”
It's like, no, there's nothing wrong with you. It's just that you took your eye off the ball. The ball was not the outcome, the ball was the experience you wanted. And when we understand that we most want experiences in our life, then we can start to say, Well, I don't have to wait two years, five years, 10 years, 20 years to have those experiences. What would I do today? If I don't want to feel trapped in what would I do today to feel more free? If I don't want to feel drained? And what would I do today to feel more energized? If I don't want to feel isolated? Then what would I do today to feel more connected, more love? If I don't want to feel stressed out or overwhelmed or bored out of my mind, then what would I do today to allow more peace in my life?
And what I found is that so come back to your dashboard. What you mentioned about a dashboard that we can look at that on owner in real time and just say, "Yeah, what would have if I stopped these responsibilities, and what way could I do them that would help me that would allow me to feel more free or alive or more loving, or more at peace as I go about creating these things." And then you might realize, "Wow, I've chosen a bunch of stuff in my life that is just not aligned with freedom, aliveness, love and peace, period." And that's where we can make some difficult decisions. It can be eye opening was just like, "Huh, all right, well, if I'm going to align my life with what has me feel free and align - alive and loving, at peace, then I might be staring directly in the things that feel uncomfortable, that feel like risk that feel like I might look like a moron. And that's, that's a bold path.
Matt Johnston 35:31
What - why is it that you know, we've been working together and friends for, I don't even know, six, seven years now. And we come back to this - versions of this dashboard yet I you know, I still point the point the boat in the direction of, you know, whatever that outcome is. Why is it that we keep going back there when, you know, this makes so much logical sense?
Tripp Lanier 35:59
I think that when we're largely governed by our self-image. And it comes back to if we're unconscious. We create scenarios in our head is like "Oh, if this were true, that XYZ retrieved - that's the place where I'm going to finally feel comfort for the rest of my life. If this thing's true, I'll finally feel safe from here on out and if this thing's true, that's where I'm finally gonna be accepted and enough and, you know, worthy or whatever it is. So, we're seeking what Phil Stutz calls, exoneration. What we want done the finish line, right? You can hear it just like, I want to be done right. It's like we imagine the guy that sells his company for x millions of dollars is done. Anyway, he usually does. He's the one calling me it's like, “Why am I unhappy? Why am I miserable?” Right? This - is he's not done. Didn't - selling his company solved some problems, but it didn't solve the experience problems like why am I still feeling trapped or drained or like usually, there's this big, who the hell am I now?
I had Mark Manson on the show, he talked about his success after reading The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, and like, why he felt like he couldn't talk about. Like, he was so confused, and he was really unhappy after that, because he'd had so much success so quickly. He didn't know what to do with his life after that. These are all indicators that we can get hooked on that scenario and I to answer your question, I think I think a lot of it comes back to our desire for exoneration to be done once and for all. We believe there's this velvet rope area where we're just done, and I think a lot of the process that I'm talking about takes awareness and work on a daily basis. I think it's just a lot easier most of us just want to be on autopilot and be like cool I'm working towards this thing I don't have to check in anymore. I can just be I can just be a robot can go make this thing happen.
Matt Johnston 37:49
You know, I think you talk about this in the book, but I've noticed it for myself and I notice it for the other the other guys that that I see work, when you - when they make this shift to, you talk about, we sit here trying to connect all the dots perfectly to this place of exoneration, pushing that to the side and letting the experience guide the path. It's amazing how much freer life becomes and how much more playful things become. And you talk about that idea of play a lot, and it comes up in the book. And I just if you could speak to that for a sec, that'd be great.
Tripp Lanier 38:32
Well, play's one of the ways that we deal with risk, right. If we've bought into the idea that we're in this high state of danger, we're not in a playful place, right? Like, I'm really gonna die here. When we really believe that there's so much on the line. That's when we're least playful. And I found that when we're willing to be playful, we have access to our creativity, we have access - we're willing to take risks, we're willing to try new ideas. So, you know, as I went through the book, if discomfort, and risk and looking bad are the three kind of bad guys, the things we want to keep an eye on, then, you know, when it came to risk and loss aversion, then playfulness was a way to remedy that. If I'm feeling like, I'm really going to die here, and this is do or die, that's a great time to be like, oh, what if it's not true? Like what would be? What is it? What if I could just play through this? What's a playful way to approach this thing? And a lot of times, we just have to zoom out a little bit and realize "Oh, I've been through worse. I've been through challenging things that come out the other side more, this might actually be fun, if I'm willing to go to give this a shot." So personally, I just find it it's more fun to just say, Alright, this is challenging. I had this this morning. I'm dealing with a challenge right now. And I could feel that that contraction of like, "Ah, sucks and I got so much blah, blah," and it was just "What would make this fun?" And it was like, "Oh, wow, I don't didn't think about it like that."
And then, you know, this morning, has been emailing the people that I would love to work on this project with. And that would be really helpful. And I was like, that would be awesome. And now I'm in a playful place and I'm willing to try new ideas willing to take some risk because A: I don't think there's that far to fall and B: like, fuck it. Let's just have some fun doing this. Like, it doesn't have to be so serious. But something some folks are really addicted to their misery and their seriousness, and it's one of the things that helps them feel really important, but I think we're far more powerful when we're willing to be playful.
Matt Johnston 40:34
Can you can you talk about - and I've got a smile on my face as I'm as I'm asking this - some of the some of the ways that you create play in your coaching.
Tripp Lanier 40:45
You need to leave me a little bit more like what do you?
Matt Johnston 40:48
Well, I just I know that you throw challenges for different - you sort of create containers for - you almost if you force people into play.
Tripp Lanier 40:56
I don't force anybody in anything. So, they're all willing to go in it. But you know it being bold, being playful getting over yourself, these are, these are elements that we have to practice them. So why wait until we're really in a scenario that the stakes are high to try and work these muscles. And so, I think what you're speaking to is this, the containers like, let's go get good at this. Let's exercise this muscle now there's not a lot at stake. But let's go do things that are a little bit scary. Now let's go into discomfort now. And let's find the most fun way to do it. And maybe even look like a fool doing it. Let's knock off all three of these things on the list and then lo and behold, realized start to get it in our brains that, oh, I come out the other side. I don't just get through it, but I'm actually stronger. It's an anti-fragile approach.
I when I know that I can be bold, and I know that I can be playful and take risks and I know that I can look like a moron from time to time. And it's not the end of the world, I suddenly have a lot more options available to me. And I, my money's on that guy. The guy who's trying to get it right all the time, he's fragile. But the one who's willing to take those risks. So yeah, we can create a container, create games, like, Oh, you want to be having a hard time making money, let's go make 100 grand in the next three months, or whatever the number is, that would that would be liberating us just like it just do it in a way where it's not that you don't have to make it. It's like it just I just know that I can always do that if I need to. And so, it's a really empowering way to go about.
Matt Johnston 42:35
I remember it was five years ago or something, but we played a 30-day rejection game. A group of us, and yeah, it was it was great. Like we'd started out as something really small, like you gotta, you know, ask for a discount on your lunch sandwich or something. And every day, you had to text in how you got rejected, and like It was amazing how everyone just kept gaining momentum. And it was fun.
Tripp Lanier 43:05
It wasn't like oh my God, this this rescue group for everybody who's you know, we pulling arrows out everybody's back it was like no it was fun. We were laughing.
Matt Johnston 43:14
No, it was it was a blast it was and then it just it was so much fun to watch people gain momentum. So, I do want to touch on this. You're a coach and we've you know, we've heard in different ways how you're supporting guys and women and I know that like your brand is the New Man but there's you've worked with women too - there's everything that we talk about, although it's all men in the group that I've been in with you it's you know -it's not gender specific for sure. What is coaching? Like we hear about it all the time, this idea of life coaching and like what is it?
Tripp Lanier 43:53
I think some people confuse it with therapy, and I would, I'm gonna use really broad strokes. Let's think of an athlete. And let's say that an athlete has been injured. He would work with a physical therapist - let's just use that term - to rehabilitate his knee. So, he can get back in the game. Right? There's a process of like, "Hey, I was I was performing at a certain level. Now I'm sub, I'm below that level because of this injury, I need to get back to that level again." All right. That's, that's what I see is the role of therapy. And that's when I work with a therapist that there's oftentimes, like, yeah, I'm working below my potential here. I want to and I'm recognizing - it's because there's an injury or there's something in my past or something in my programming - that it's helpful to address that directly.
Then I'm freed up I've got a lot more energy to work with that. So, whether there's been some kind of acute trauma that's happened or there's something from our past it can be really helpful to go and heal that so then we can get back to the game. Coaching is more I see it more as a creative process. What is it that I want to create with my life in my life? You know, and I've come from an art background. It's just like, yeah, well, what's the thing we want to create here? My life's a canvas, what am I here to create? And I understand that if I'm going to create XYZ in my life, I'm going to meet resistance, meaning I'm going to do I'm going to be fearful of being uncomfortable or taking risks or looking like a moron. So, I think a coach, I see a coach, not as somebody who gives you advice. I see a coach not as somebody who tells you what to do that's that he's not a consultant in that way. A great coach will pull out your who you are, will draw out your own leadership. Who are you when you're not trying to avoid discomfort? Who are you when you're not trying to avoid loss? Who are you when you're not trying to avoid looking like a moron?
That’s where we find our biggest and best self. And the coaches like, yeah, I want you to lead from that place. Even though you're scared of these things, we're going to do them anyway. And so, for whatever time that we're working together, we're coming from that place where we're not going to let discomfort and risk and looking like a moron get in our way. We're going to prioritize what we ultimately want in service of freedom of lightness, love and peace. This is the way that I work. I've worked with people that come to me and say, I want to make I want to add another zero to my net worth. And it's and it's like, yeah, okay, but it's not inspiring to me because I don't get that that's what would really help them feel more free or alive or loved or at peace.
I always come back to where do those key experiences and sometimes we may find that it's just about simplifying their lives and saying no to things. And that allows these experiences just emerge. They don't have to chase them or pursue them. But so, I see it as a creative process. And helping us come from a place where we're not eclipsed by our fears or doubts or the expectations that we place on ourselves. We imagine that others have of us.
Matt Johnston 45:33
So, for the person that's listening that hears that and they're like, "That is amazing, you know, how do I get into a relationship to get me some of that? How do I make sure that I'm putting the structures in place around me so that I so that I can move forward in that way? What do you tell that person?
Tripp Lanier 47:27
Well, there's been a lot of people that have come into this coaching industry. And so, I a lot of them will just talk to you. So, I go find I like to work with people who've done what I want to do. Because I think that I think - I like to - I want to I want to talk to that guy has already been down that road in some way. It's not that he's gonna give me tell me exactly what to do, but he knows what it's like. He's like, "Oh, yeah, I know this part. This is where you're going to want to give up, and this is where you're going to want to throw in the chips, and then where you're gonna want to bullshit yourself and be like, 'Yeah, I can't do it because I got this other thing, I got to clean out the gutters.'"
So, it's like, I like to find the people that I'm attracted to. And I just like the way that they work or like the way that they talk. And then I'd like to, you know, talk to them. just research and who do you resonate with? If you don't like talking with this person, you don't feel like you can share what's really going on with you, you won't get much out of the relationship. And then finally, you gotta understand that the coach is not there to be your friend. He's not there to be your buddy. So even though you and I get along, and we have fun, and there's a lot of laughter. I know there's been days when you've gotten off the phone with me, you're like, to hell with Tripp, right? Like, I know you were really frustrated. But that's not - my job was not to be your buddy and to tell you what you wanted to hear my job is to challenge you - is to not believe your fears is not to believe your doubts. I see your biggest best self and I'm going to draw that out. I'm not going to let you bring that fear. You know or let that fear eclipse you.
So, you may find that you get along with somebody but it's not effective because they're just buying into your fears and bullshit along with you or they're working. They're more committed to being liked by you then by really challenging you. So, I'd find a coach that's willing to go into those places that are really uncomfortable. That's more rare.
Matt Johnston 49:19
Thank you. As I'm sitting looking at looking at you in your studio here, you've got - there's three guitars behind you, a picture of a picture of the waves, you live 10 blocks away from the beach. And you're in your home studio. You are an exemplar to me of someone on this path, which is why I stalk you.
Tripp Lanier 49:48
Thank you.
Matt Johnston 49:49
I know that we're right at time here. I'll be respectful of your time for today.
Tripp Lanier 49:58
If you've got more - I'm cool to keep going if you got more you want to talk about, I've got a little more time.
Matt Johnston 50:03
No, you know I'd love to get you back again there's so much that we can dig into. I guess you know there's one thing I do want to want to ask it because you've made some hard some hard decisions but you're living - you're walking the walk, you're walking the talk. And you and your wife, Allison, I know it's not a perfect world but you and your wife, Allison have moved to the beach in North Carolina and I watch you every day, sort of asking yourself those questions as to what is you know, what is the experience I most want to have? And I guess I just wanted to as a last topic area - is from your own experience as someone who's married, has a kid, is running a business and you're constantly re-evaluating what brings strength into your life. How do you - it sounds great on paper, the book makes so much sense the practices, it's easy when you say it, but how do you, you know, how do you? What does reality look like? And how do you keep charging forward?
Tripp Lanier 51:16
Well, it's you gotta understand it's not been an accident. And there are times where there's a lot of uncertainty and there's work involved. So, I don't want to paint this picture that there's some Easy Street thing, right the choices that Alison and I make to have the lifestyle that we have they inherently come with certain risks and certain costs, right. There's no kind of getting out. There's days sometimes where I wake up, I was like, why can't I just get a job somewhere? I wish I was a guy that could do that. Like I just had it in me, but I haven't had a job since I was in college. And that's just not in my -hasn't been in my constitution.
But there are times I was like, why can't I do that? Because I would love that stability. Right? And there's days where, you know, it's just like yeah, if things aren't going the way that I want with, you know, if I want to make a change in how I'm doing the business, there's risk to our income there, you know, and, and then there's times where it's like, yeah, I go to a party and somebody asked me what I do I look like a moron. You know, if they like, "Well, your coach, like, who in the hell would do that?" I mean, I come from a family of people that, "You do what? You know, I don't understand what the hell that is." So, there's, it's a willingness to the to go into those places that feel uncomfortable, that feel risky, and that might have us look a little weird.
Even leaving Boulder, I mean, Boulder was this like this mecca of personal growth and spiritual growth and all that kind of stuff that was happening there, and I couldn't live there. It wasn't strengthening for me. I was like - the reality was my experience - I was drained living there, I had to get back to the ocean. And it was just like this seems insane like it's gonna kill my business. It's gonna kill my credibility if I'm not in Boulder and I'm not surrounded by these people on a daily basis. And it was like, well I come back to living in alignment with that actually strengthens me as like we go live in a small town in North Carolina - very conservative - it's really different for Boulder but = geologically like, where geographically is like, where we live in relationship to the mountains in the ocean, what works for our lifestyles like that.
Everything was an experiment like, let's try it. And I think that I don't know if I'm answering your question but when I look at the lens of - look at it through the lens of everything's an experiment, then I'm out and I know that I'm okay to course correct. I relax a bit more. It's like you know, it'd be a pain in the ass to course correct, but I can't I'm not stuck. I'm not trapped. And I'm grateful to have Allison as my partner and then we are aligned in that philosophy. And, you know, we've been willing to work together on this stuff and like, hey, what strengthens you, what strengthens you? Because, you know, that's part of the vows and the commitment that we made one another's, that we were going to play that role in each other's lives to help strengthen one another.
Matt Johnston 54:23
I'm sure there's ebbs and flows and emotion, but when you when you share it with me, there's often a bit of playfulness and this sort of idea around, "We're just going to try it." Like I remember when you moved to North Carolina, it was, "We're just, you know, we've looked at a few different places, and we're gonna try North Carolina," and it was like, then you move there, like, three months later. It's like, holy, what the hell just happened? Wow, you can do that.
Yeah. It's like, it's not very comfortable. Yeah. And there's the risk of losing things. And so I think that again, the more I'm willing to play into those places where I'm uncomfortable and take some risks sometimes and just realize like, "Hey, even if I lose XYZ, I can make it back, I can figure out how to make it back," or whatever I just, I'm a much stronger person there. It's not an easy place, I usually have to like, remember that, like, I have to spin out for a little while. And then remember, it's also why I hire coaches, why I have people in my corner that help me make those bigger choices from that part of myself instead of the scared, wounded part. But that I just find life's a lot easier when we stop racing for a finish line. Or we stopped believing that we've chosen a path and it's fixed. Life's a lot easier. And it's like, hey, oh, well, what would make this what would have this be more expansive for me what would have me feel more strong and then being willing to experiment and see what works?
Well, that seems like a pretty good spot to end it off for today. Thank you, Tripp. Thanks for taking the time today, of course, and thank you for everything that you're doing. You've been a huge support in my life a great friend. And a great role model. And of course, coach, so thank you to both you and Alison. I've invaded your family over the last eight years. And to be continued.
Tripp Lanier 56:27
Yeah, well, we love you. And I'm so psyched that you're doing this. I love seeing you get really fired up for this too. So, I just want to support you and following that fire.
Matt Johnston 56:38
Thanks, man.